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BONUS EPISODE: A My DPC Story Fireside Chat featuring Dr. Nneka Unachukwu (She/Her) of EntreMD

Dr. Una practices at Ivy League Peds and
Dr. Nneka Unachukwu of EntreMD

Dr. Una, as she is lovingly known by most, is the host of the EntreMD podcast and founder of EntreMD Business School.

She is also a speaker, author and regular contributor to Forbes. And recently released the book The EntreMD method - A proven roadmap for doctors who want to live life and practice medicine on their terms.

She has already helped hundreds of physicians get their time back, dramatically increase their bottom line and build businesses of impact.

One of the biggest things that I admire is she embodies what we are all doing in DPC and that is being autonomous physicians AND entrepreneurs.

On top of that she is a parent and a person who has thrived despite the pandemic and despite the state of healthcare for the everyday American.


From Dr. Una:

Hi, I’m Dr. Una. I’m the host of the EntreMD podcast and founder of EntreMD Business School. I am also a speaker, author and regular contributor to Forbes. I have helped hundreds of physicians get their time back, dramatically increase their bottom line and build businesses of impact.

I was just like you a decade ago. I was an accomplished physician but knew there was more. In my bid to explore this, I started a private practice. I started off scared, ignorant and feeling like an imposter but eventually, it dawned on me what the missing link was. I knew NOTHING about business. I have since gone on to become a serial entrepreneur. I now have the freedom to see patients when and how I want, pursue my other interests and spend time with my family.

Doctors are experiencing burnout, loss of autonomy, lack of job security and extreme dissatisfaction with their careers like never before. It does not have to be this way. My mission is to help you create a business or career that will empower you to take back control.


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------------------------- TRANSCRIPT* Today. I am so honored because it is a privilege to have Dr. Nneka Unachukwu

here on our fireside chat. We are also graced with the presence of Dr. Pyal Jhawar, an internist and direct primary care physician in Bradenton, Sarasota, Florida, who opened her practice in September of 2021. And Dr. Tea Nguyen A. Direct care, podiatrist practicing out of Santa Cruz, California, who initially opened up in 2018, but then transitioned to a fully cash based specialty practice in 2020. Now our featured guest dr una Uh, she is loving as she is lovingly known by most is the host of the entree MD podcast, as well as. A must listen. As she is lovingly known by most is the host of the entree MD. D podcast. A must listen for any DPC director. As she is lovingly known by most is the host of the entre MD podcast. A must listen for anyone who's in DPC and founder of entre MD business school. She is also a speaker, author, and regular contributor to Forbes. Recently she released the book, the entre MD method, a proven roadmap for doctors who want to live life and practice medicine on their terms. And we can all relate to the words she shares there. She has already helped hundreds of physicians get their time back, dramatically, increase their bottom lines and build businesses of impact. And one of the biggest things that I admire is she embodies what we are all doing in DPC, and that is being autonomous physicians and entrepreneurs. on top of that, She's a parent. And a person who has thrived despite this pandemic and despite the state of healthcare for the everyday American. So without further ado, welcome Dr. Unna. And thank you so much again for being here today. Thank you so much for having me. I think I'm gonna have. Record that intro and take it with me everywhere I go. but thank you for having me. And I, I do wanna say thank you for doing what you do. As you know, I, I, I love physicians and I know that this is interesting time for physicians, but I'm grateful for other physicians who are out there, this determined that we are going to change medicine, we are gonna change, you know, the narrative for physicians. We're gonna change healthcare and you're leading the way in that. So thank you for, for what you do. Absolutely. It is so interesting that when you take a physician out of the chains of fee for service and you let their creativity go crazy, It's amazing what they can achieve. And so with that said, I wanna start off the conversation with the fact that you are a physician who had a lot of the same insecurities starting out as many of us do in DPC. So specifically you talk about, in your podcast, as well as in your book, how you were, you were open, you had already signed through your lease, you had signed on for technology or, you know, your internet contracts and whatnot. And then the patients were not magically showing up at your door. Bring us back to that moment when you realized, wow, I'm treating myself as, quote unquote, just a physician, the term that you hate to, to have people say to you, um, how did that turn out for you that you went from just a physician to being the woman you are. So, so I'll start off with, if there is any insecurity in the book, I had it I had them all. And so when I started my practice, I started my practice 15 months out of residency. My boss had that my first job I had signed a one year contract. He had given me a five year contract after that, like, Hey, we're working out well, here's a five year contract. And to put that in perspective, I had been married for three years. I had finished residency for three years. So as far as I was concerned, three years was a really long time. And so I was like five year contract. I can't do that. Right. And I was gonna move anyway. So I was like, listen, I'm gonna move anyway. So I can't stay. And he said, so go start your own practice. I'm like, nobody starts a practice one year out of residency, like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, in case you missed this very big bump here I am pregnant. Like we thi this is not a winning combination. but he was like, you're already doing everything you would do there, here. Um, and if you have questions, I will help you go start. And so I will say I started my practice out of ignorance, right? Like ignorance is bliss. I was like, this is gonna be amazing. I started researching other practices started, you know, what are they doing? I'm looking at their reviews. What do patients not like? So I can make mine different. And we started looking at locations. I got location signed the contract. This was amazing. I looked at the sign, I really pediatrics. I'm like, oh my gosh, we're doing this. And so my philosophy was hang the shingle and they will come. And so I hung the shingle and to my shock, they did not come And at this time, like you said, I'd signed the lease. I had insurance contracts going. I had, you know, like, um, internet that I've signed up for phone, all, like, I felt stuck. Like I would run away if I could, but I can't. Right. And so it's like a deer caught headlight moment and it dawned on. that I was gonna have to do other things. I was gonna have to market now, first of all, I'm a physician. Okay. And as far as I was concerned at that time, selling and marketing, those were sleazy things. Those were not professional things. They were almost cus words like what physician talks about selling. Right. And so I'm like, I can't do that. And, um, I was the socially awkward, super shy, introverted introvert. And I'm like, I couldn't even bring myself to go to OB GYNs to say, I'm a pediatrician, send your babies to me. I couldn't do it. And so then I didn't have patience. And I remember, you know, feeling stuck because I was like, I can't do this. I don't know how to do this. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm a physician. I'm not a business person. Um, I'm not the kind of person who can do this. Right. So these people who own practices, they can do it. But I can't. And I remember reading a book. Because remember this is 2010. So there Facebook groups that was not a theme. Facebook did not have groups there there's no group there. I couldn't find physician entrepreneurs. I literally used to Google physician entrepreneurs, physicians in business that, and like, where are they? You know, who can I ask questions? I can't find them. Right. And so I was reading this book by Brian, Tracy, eat that frog. And he, he made one sentence that totally changed my entire world. He says, all business skills are learnable. And for the first time he dawned on me. Those guys with bigger practices are not better than me. Like I'm not static. I can change. They just have skills that I don't have. They can promote their practice. I haven't learned to do that. They can build teams. I haven't learned to do this. They can look at profit and lot statements that make sense out of it. I haven't learned, but it's a skill. I can learn it. And so it made me realize that I'm dynamic, not static. If there's anything, I don't know, I can learn it and I can be as successful as anybody else. And that changed every thing for me, everything. I just love that. And I mean, when you say I can be as successful as anybody else, it's such an empowering statement I want to challenge, people who are listening today. Think about that and say it to yourself because one, you're putting that out into the world, but two, it literally is true. It absolutely literally is true. Let me open the floor there, guys, do you have any questions about what Dr. Una is sharing already? Because I see a lot of heads nodding in the audience because it's a very relatable experience. Yeah, I think, um, what you said about, you know, how physicians feel uncomfortable about marketing themselves? I can definitely say it's a, it was a very uncomfortable feeling trying to do that. And I'm like, why do I need to do this? Like, it feels weird. It feels almost like sleazy. Like, am I being, you know, sleazy trying to just go tell people, Hey, come join my practice, learn more about me, you know? And, uh, and over time it becomes more comfortable and you realize that's just how you think about things in a business model. It's not, you know, something, you know, taught as a physician necessarily. So it's like you have two different, you know, mindsets going at the same time, but I, I totally understand what you mean by that. Yeah. I, I've been doing a cash practice for two years now and it's still uncomfortable to have money conversations. It still feels. Am I coming off sleazy or am I providing a solution? And so it's not as if I changed overnight in how I present myself, it still is very uncomfortable. So I'm glad to hear you share that you where we're all at, it still exists back there. But I learned from you that business skills are learnable. And so knowing that we are dynamic is incredibly powerful. And I thank you for saying that. My pleasure, and, and I love what you said, that this I'm still in the process. And that really is a, is a thought pattern of the ultra successful. Cuz sometimes we get impatient. Like why, why isn't, why haven't I fixed this? Why haven't I still uncomfortable with money? Why am I that? . But when you realize that there's no goal per se, you're in constant evolution, then you give yourself space to just continue to grow. So then you're looking, am I better than I was three months ago? Much better. Great. So am I where I wanna be? Not yet, but I'm so much better than I was three months ago. So that's a, it's a very powerful way of thinking. And then the money conversation, if you think about us as physicians, we were so shielded from it that it made us I'm a physician. So I can say this. It made us entitled, right? Cuz think about being an employed physician. You get up in the morning, you get in your car, you grab your coffee on your way you park in the parking lot. You go into the office, they tell you, patients are ready. You walk in, you see the patients you leave and then money magically appears in your bank account. So we have this philosophy. If I do good medicine, the money will. well, that's a lie because the reason why we can do what we did is that somebody marketed and brought the patients in the hospital, employed a PR person who went in the community and said, this is a practice. You need to be a part of somebody at the front, had the money conversation, collected the copay and the deductible and all of that stuff. And then when you are done, somebody send the, send the claims and somebody else works in collections. There's this whole slew of people that deal with all the money parts, and we're shielded from it. We're told, just come and see the patients. And so when we start our practices, we go with that philosophy. We get up in the morning, we get in our car, we get the coffee, we go to the parking lot. We sit and we're like, where are the patient? but all those other parts are missing. And so when you become an entrepreneur, you, when you start your own practice, you need to realize there are all these other pieces that made it work. Um, we were shielded and we now need to start paying attention to that. When people are opening up the practices, they're new, they might be new to the community in general. And they're, they're realizing that, wow, I, I need to, you know, sell my business. I need to sell my value proposition. What are some of the, the tips that you have when a, physician is, in that space of. I, I can't do this. How do I do this? because even though what you said earlier is so empowering to get to that spot of feeling like, okay, yes, I'm empowered. And then I can act on that empowerment versus that's such an empowering statement, but I'm still fearful and I'm still stuck. How do you talk with other doctors about getting past that fear to start, getting the word out about your practice and about that you are accepting patients that your value proposition is amazing. So when it comes to, to money to selling to all these uncomfortable things, there is nothing we say right now that will make it comfortable, nothing. And once we realize that, then we can be a little more comfortable being uncomfortable. Do you see what I mean? It is going to be uncomfortable. It will become more comfortable, but chances are you'd have picked up bigger projects that will put you in more uncomfortable things. And so the most successful people live uncomfortable. So the first thing is to not strive for comfort, right? The comfort zone is where great dreams go to die. That that's not what we strive for. If we, if we think about in med school, we embrace discomfort after discomfort. That's what made us these great physicians that we are the discomfort of the grades. You have to get into a good pre-med thing, and then you do pre-med and then you do med. And then while you're just, you know, settling into med school, then there's residency. Then there's, you know, it was nonstop discomfort, right? No matter how good our schools were, no matter how much support we have, it was uncomfortable. And so if you wanna be that person who continues to evolve to continues to do great things, then you're somebody who embraces discomfort. Like this is uncomfortable, but this is good. so that's the first thing. The second thing is, you know, I, I, I talk about this concept of falling in love with your business and what that is, is tracing the true impact of what you do. It puts you in a position where you're like, yeah, you do want to work with me. And yeah, it is only 99 or a hundred dollars or whatever it is a month, or it is this like, you're so excited and you know that you're giving people such a great deal because you've taken the time to fall in love with your business. So what does that mean? It means that you don't just stop at, I see people and this is how much I charge them and they can get longer visits. You don't stop there. What is the true impact of what you do? Okay, so you trace it to where, well, there's this person, they couldn't afford the premiums for health insurance and all of this stuff, but through their job, they got to work with you. And so it was affordable. And for the first time they were able to have regular visits. And for the first time their hypertension was under control. So their dad died at 56, but here they are at 70 because they have good care. So they're living longer. They get to go to their kids' wedding. They get to go to the kids' graduation. They don't have all these complications, so they have a great quality of life and they get all of that for $99 a month. See, that is very different from, they can just come to me and they get cheaper medications. It's very different. So you trace it all the way. So think about your patients when they tell your doctor, you changed my life because this then take that, this, and take it all the way. And so you get, you're just like, oh my goodness. I am the best thing since life spread. That's the impression it gives you. It makes it so much easier to put yourself out there because you know what you're doing, it makes it so much easier for you to ask for dollars because you're like the dollars you pay that, like how much would you pay to be alive and walk in your own two feet without any deficits at your daughter's wedding? Like how much would you pay for that? you know what I mean? I'm only charging you $99 a month. right. So the more, you know, the true value. So it's not the process. It's not, oh, I saw the patient. Oh, I got them. Discount meds. It's not, it's not the process. It's the outcome. The more you sit with the outcome, the more you fall in love with what you do, the easier it is for you to tell people you really want to work with me. It helps you stand in your authority and, you know, talk about your business in a way. I mean, you, you're just like you, you have to come . what do what, well, what else is out there? you've challenged us with going beyond, what we have to sell, transparent lab costs, transparent, radiology costs, access to 24 7 care, whatever the physician chooses. But I love that it's really building a story and a journey for the patients. And we all know that we really respond to stories more than more than pitches and, and if I may, when you think about what makes us say yes, it's not the process. in the nicest way, I can say this, nobody cares about your process. They just wanna know what it's gonna do for me. Right. So, so I, I love using the example of a personal trainer. If a personal trainer comes and says, oh my goodness, you're going to love working with me. This is the gym we're gonna be at. This is a wonderful elliptical. I'm gonna put you on every day. These are the weights you're gonna lift. It's gonna be so great. We're like, who cares? Right. If you tell me I'm gonna put you in your skinny jeans again, I'm sold now, are you gonna have to put me on the elliptical for me to get in my skinny jeans? Yes, but I don't, I don't want the process. I want the outcome. Right? So you think in those terms, when somebody works with me, somebody's been my patient for three months, six months, nine months a year, what can happen to them? what could their lives look like? And for many people, we already have that, right? We already have people we've served. We already have these stories. That's what people want. That's what they're looking for. The outcome, not the process I have to, I have to insert myself here because I'm, as a surgeon, I'm completely guilty of loving the surgical process, the fine detail of the equipment that I use, how I suture and how I do this and that. And no one cares. And it's so clear that patients don't wanna hear the gory stuff. They don't wanna know if they're bleeding or not. They just wanna know, can you get me in a place where I can play with my children on the beach? And it's funny because we had that information in front of us, but it really untangles our ego. Like how could I not talk about surgery? That's I'm a surgeon. How can I not talk about how you get there? and in reality, they, they really don't care. They didn't go to medical school to care so that's a really good point. And sometimes they may, they may be intrigued because many people don't go into the, or by that. So say, let's say you even did videos of, you know, some parts of surgical procedures and all of that. You can, as long as you take them on the floor, right. Which means I'm doing the sutures like this so that you don't have that ugly scar. You see what I mean? So you take them all the way, because everything you do that you love, there's a reason you love it. Do you see what, like you, we want to take them to the, to the outcome. You're thinking about it. But a lot of times when we're talking, we stop at the process. We're not taking them all the way. You see what I mean? So some of those things, if you're used to doing them and people are somewhat drawn to them, it's fine. As long as you take them all the way. You see what I'm saying? So the outcome, like I'm doing this and, oh my goodness, this is a 30 minute procedure, but by the time I'm done with this, give it four more weeks. She will be on the beach playing with her grandkids. You see what I'm saying? You take it all the way. So they're like, the surgery is fascinating and she got them on the beach. This is amazing. I wanna go to that doctor, you know, so you take them to the outcome cuz that's what they really want. And if you look all over entrepreneurship, everywhere for the really successful businesses, that's what they do. Like you can actually start looking at that. And the reason why I bring this up, is that sometimes a lot of times innovation is not new things is taking things from other industries and bringing it to your industry. And I think DPC, the DPC model is a perfect place for that more so than a fee. So for a fee for service, you earn what you earn. So there's some strategies that you can learn that cannot work in that model because there's a cap, there's a, you know, but with the DPC model, there's so many things you can pick up from other industries. And you can put it there and it makes it work like magic . So for instance, one of the groups that do a lot of marketing would be, weight loss, right? What do they almost always use before? And after pictures, there's no gym. it's before and after, like, I was like this and I'm like this, and so the best marketing messages are the same. It's not pictures now. It's like, I was like this and I'm like this. So what was the pain somebody had before they started working with you in this DPC model? And because they're in the DPC model, because they're in your practice, what does life look like here? You get good at painting that you get, you just have people say yes, because it's a proven model before and after pictures work. So now you're not using the picture. You're using the words. He was on 10 medications. Blood pressure was not under control, had to wait two months to see his doctor, all of that stuff. Now he has this right. And blood pressure is under control. And now he's only on three meds and he has his life back and he was just at the beach and he was like, so now you're painting it. But with words, not pictures and it works. my own patients have told me a couple of times. They're like, you know, if you just hit like these. The three or four points that every patient, you know, every person that's in the healthcare system struggles with and why they don't like the current traditional system and why they've been just so, you know, put off by it and they don't wanna go see a doctor. You're like, if you just keep reiterating those points and showing like, well, this is what everybody kind of goes through, and this is how DPCs different. They're like, you won't need to do much more to convince people. And you're absolutely right. I think that that's what really resonates and that's what people remember. And that's what sticks, you know, that's amazing. You're your patients are your marketing consultants. I know, I try, I try to use them for that. That is amazing. And, and you bring up a great point because when it comes to marketing messages that resonate, it almost never comes from us. It comes from the people you serve. So think about a time when someone. Dr. PA, you are amazing because you pay attention to that. Because if you put that in a social media post, like if you work with me, do, do, do, do, do do, or a patient told me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You have people calling your office because they're people just like them everywhere. right. And so if you think about it, you know, I'm a human, I may like hamburgers. I don't, but just roll with me for the example. Right? And then I meet a fish and I'm like, I love hamburgers fish. She must love hamburgers. And fish is like, Nope, I love worms. No, but you need A hamburger. Fish is like, Uhuh, you can put 10 hamburgers on a hook. I'm not coming. You give fishy, the worms fishy comes. Right? And so it's the same thing with your marketing message. Sometimes we have things we fall in love with the people want what the people want, that there's conversations going on in their heads. And the more you listen to people, the more you'll be able to. interrupt that conversation, join that conversation. And then they're like, oh, she gets me. They start saying things like, I feel like you're talking to me. Right. And once you get that is resonance. And when people hear that, it doesn't matter what your website looks like. It doesn't what your brochures are. Like, it doesn't matter. They're like, that's the person they know I can trust you because you get them. So that's, that's powerful. Your patients are amazing. something that has been brought up, in previous guest podcasts is the idea of social proof, even on your website. So, when you talk about we're not, we're not the marketing team, it's really our patients, um, that can really sell what we are doing and make people understand what we're doing. Um, having some kind of social proof or quotes from, your, if you're in fee for service, you can take screenshots of those before you leave. You can, read your Google reviews and. Those are public information and you can use those as well as, uh, this idea came from Dr. CLA Ryan. Um, at least that's why I learned it from happy birthday. Happy Valentine's day. Send your doctor some love, send us a review. Here's my Google, review link. And so as Dr. JIR is talking about her patients are like in love with her and her practice. Those are the types of people who are so motivated, especially right after they get amazing care and care that stands out from any care they've gotten before to leave those reviews. I love it. And we live in times where people will give you videos. If you ask them, they'll give you videos. Those are amazing. You can just, you know, throw up a YouTube thing and bam, bam, bam, you put them up there. And, and the thing is this, even though times have changed a lot in the physician world we're lagging behind. Right? So if you think of how we use social proof, how we use videos, how we use podcasting and all of that, we are somewhat behind, which means it's so much easier to stand out if you'll embrace those things. Right. And so if you think about it, we are content creators, right? People are like, I struggle with content. I'm like, really? I'm like, if you see 15 patients a. This is 15 people who came up to you. You were not scared. You had no idea what they were gonna ask you, but you were not scared. They came up to you and you were able to talk with them, give them their answers, tell them what you think may be going on with them. You formulated a plan and you wrote a blog post, otherwise known as a chart note, right? And so if you saw 10 patients, 15 patients, 20 patients, you did that many blog posts and technically for cameras in front of you, you did that many videos. So we are natural content creators. And so if you think about it, think about the things that people come to you a lot, ask questions about a lot are amazed that you could walk them through. Imagine if all of those were videos on your YouTube channel, in their words, in their, like the title is the question they asked you I'm pediatrician. So what color should my kids poop be? Right? Cause we like to come up with fancy technical things. They don't want that. What color should my kids poop be? Should I be worried that my kid is cross-eyed my kid is two years old and still bowl egg. Should I be should, does he need surgery? Like the questions they gave you, that's the title, the answer you gave them. That's the video the end. But imagine if you had a YouTube channel where you're dumping all those videos, right. And it was linked to your website, so you have all this content who's gonna watch 10 of those videos and think anybody else is the doctor for them. Of course, you're the doctor for them. they know I can trust you. They've experienced your brilliance. There's nobody else. And so same, same thing. If they're able to read client, um, patient testimonials and all of those kind of things, it just makes people go. Like I was thinking she was a doctor for me. Now I'm convinced she's a doctor for me. Right. And low barrier to entry because many doctors are not doing it. The direct care physicians of Pittsburgh talked about on their podcast, how they're fighting the major corporations in Pittsburgh for, for patients to notice them. And there's other communities like mine, where I live in a town of 4,000 people, and I pinned my business card to the. community board outside of the market. So if people are willing to spend money and they're wanting to spend money, how do you challenge people to look at their individual communities to decide where is best to put that money? So I'll start off by saying this and that is paid advertising. Let me use Facebook ads as an example, right? Paid advertising works so much better when it is linked with organic marketing. So a lot of times people want to do the paid and that's a little different from the scenario you're presented, but people want to do the paid as a way to escape doing the organic, right. And so I sat with a, with a Facebook ad sky and he runs big accounts, right? We're talking people who are spending tens of thousands, almost a hundred thousand a month on Facebook ads. He runs big accounts. And so I've known this, but I was like, tell me the truth for the people whose ads are doing the best, what are they doing to maximize their ads? And so he says on number one, they're clear on their messaging. Okay. And so like what we talked about, that's messaging the stories, all of that kind of stuff, because your message is like an a, the sharper, it is the quicker the tree comes down. Right. That that's just the way it is. So he said, they're clear, they're clear on their message. And I'm like, great. Okay, what else? He says, the people who are killing it with ads are killing it with organic marketing. Right? Cause even the algorithms are like, oh, he has all this stuff going on. This is amazing. Let's help him. That's literally the way it works. So I'm saying all that to say my recommendations always, when you're gonna put money behind it, you also wanna put the effort behind organic marketing. Right. So for instance, let's say that Dr. Team. had this YouTube channel that was going out, she's putting, you know, she's putting out content every week, answering questions people wanna know about and all of that. And somebody came on an ad where they're gonna go from the ad to Hmm. But I don't know about her, but she's bingeable because then they find her YouTube and they watch, watch and watch and watch. And then they say, yes, they saw the ad, but it's not cuz of the ad. They said, yes it's because they had the ad and they could binge. And then they said, yes, you see what I'm saying? So I just wanna, I wanna throw that out there. As far as paid goes, the people I've seen really scale and stuff like that is it's mostly like Facebook ads. And , Google ads that they have done. Many people have worked with publicists or have worked with, , like PR people and it, the results have been fairly inconsistent. And so, I mean, even people who do big market, like a grant Cardone is like, I've not worked with a publicist. Who's helped me. I don't know what to say. So I'm sure there are some good ones, but the results are very inconsistent. Um, so your online ads will do pretty well, but this is the other thing. The hospitals typically go big. We have the advantage of being able to go small. They can't compete with us. Like we have to remember that they may be big, but that is an advantage and a disadvantage. We may be small or smaller. That is an advantage and a disadvantage. They cannot compete on the warm, friendly atmosphere. They cannot, they cannot, they may not be able to compete on their ability to reach the masses, cuz yes, they may have the big billboard and all of that stuff. But I'm telling you, if you build a strong referral base with the people who can refer to you and you build, you become bingeable, whether that's YouTube or whatever that you do, you're showing up on social media. You're now remember. You have access to raving fans. Now you learn to leverage them, meaning that you encourage them to refer you, hold open houses. You like all those kind of things. Because those people, if everybody in your practice send you one person you're doubled, like, think about it. So if you leverage the people you do have, who are the Raven fans who bring you, the people you need, the hospital can't compete on that. You see what I mean? So you look at the disadvantages that the bigger systems have and you live in their zone of disadvantage. You don't try to compete on the billboards and compete on their big advertising dollars. You can go small. You know what I mean? It's like basketball. You go big. We go small and you can't compete. And so we we're, we're not stuck because they're like, we're gonna run them out. They looked for a disadvantage and they live there. We look for their disadvantage and we live there. They can't compete. What are they gonna do? Start a YouTube channel. That's relatable. Of course. It's gonna be so polished that the average person's gonna be like, yeah, that doesn't matter to me. I'm gonna be in my office telling you the real deal, answering the questions that have been going on in your mind. Who else is the doctor for you? I am. When I started my private practice, there were five very well established practice practices. Within a 10 minute drive. I could not compete with their Saturday hours. I could not compete with their evening hours. I could not compete with their fancy 50, $50,000 aquarium in their office. I could compete on none of that, but I can compete. I can get you in and out in an hour. I could compete on, I will know your child's name. I will know your wedding anniversary. And I will know that you're in nursing school. Okay. I can compete on that. I can compete on you walking into my office and going like, wow, these are all my aunties and uncles. They just happen to be medical people. You can't, you're big. You can't compete on that. So I sat there and then people came because that's all, that's all they complained about in the reviews. I'm treated like a number I waited for two hours, so I just found all their disadvantages and I lived there and we thrived. So we're we're so I'm saying that to say yes, a hospital system may be trying to run people outta business, but remember they're big, they have disadvantage and that disadvantage is our advantage. So we don't feel like, oh, we're the victim. We're like, oh, I may look tiny, but I'm coming to you. I'm coming for you. You might be a Goliath. I'm a David you're coming now. Mm-hmm you know, I, I think about as you were, as you were talking there, how, , when I used to work in fever service, my patients would get an automated, , how was your experience with doctor consumption and the reviews, especially, um, that patients left were about me as a physician and the care that I had given them as a physician and not the hospital system, not the corporation. And , if people are even questioning, my sale ability, look at your amazing reviews that your patients, even if you're in fever service have already left you. So that's awesome. And it just, it makes me pumped because I'm like, yes, the, we will be the David and Goliath, battle because we, we are clearly growing as a movement. And there is a reason because our patients love us and our patients love what we bring to our communities. Absolutely. We, we we're the Davids, but Goliath is coming down. so true. What you said. Um, you know, I'm in a place where there are no other DPCs around me, so it's very new concept. And I feel like I'm always marketing the concept more than even myself and, you know, People have told me, but that's okay. They're like people, once they know you, you've already had reviews from when you worked in fee for service. And you know, now that you're building your patient panel, people have already said good things about you. So that's gonna follow automatically. But it's funny that you say about, you know, paid advertising and organic advertising. And for me, I find it more important that I'm talking more and I'm speaking more and people see my face and me instead of paying somebody else to go out and do this for me, or, you know, and I think that that's so personalized in what you say that big hospital systems can't really do that. I mean, when I worked for a big corporate group, I wasn't out there passing out my card. Someone else was like, you said someone else, they paid to do that. So I think that that's a big advantage being that we're smaller as well. I'm a little disappointed at how much money I threw at the system thinking I didn't have to meet with people. Like I thought that was just what you did. I thought you just threw money down on Facebook and they just. I'm a little disappointed. That's not how it played out. but I mean, so the, the Facebook ads do work, but, but so, but this is the thing they, they work it's it's plus right. It for the people who get the biggest bang for their buck, they're doing both. So, so let's, let's take a tour of the, of the industry. Um, you'll see people, I just wanna set a funnel and forget it. Okay. And I'm like, okay, let's take a look at that. The, the grandfather of the funnel movement. Well, maybe not the grandfather, but the person who's most well known for it now is Russell Bronson. We click funnels. Right. And he does ads and he does all of that, but he's very active on social media. He has a podcast. He records episodes one to three episodes a week. He's speaking on stages. He's doing Facebook lives. If you could set a funnel and forget it, why is he doing all of that? Do you see what I'm saying? And you'll see somebody talking about ads is the strategy. But they're doing webinars. They're speaking on stages. They're doing Facebook lives. If it's just ads, why are you doing that? Do you see what I mean? Now? One of the benefits of the organic marketing, sometimes it's not, I mean, it's the no like, and trust factor in all of that, but when you're starting out, that is your opportunity to really fine tune your message, to really gather those stories. If you try, you find out that you talk to a patient and you're telling them about what you do and you say something you're like, huh? I've never said that before. I've always meant it, but I've never been able to articulate it. So it gives you the opportunity to find yourself, to find what makes you unique to hear people talk, because remember your people are the people who give you copy. If you take what your patients tell you, now I'm not talking. HIPAA protected things. You, you guys understand that, right? But if you take their stories and you start posting their stories and you start doing videos on their stories and start talking about their stories, you'll have people follow you like crazy because of the resonance. But if you don't do the organic market and you don't find all of that now when you do the organic market and you discover that and you take the stories and you throw ads on it, that is like gasoline on fire. See? So, so the ads work, but they're the gasoline. If there's no fire, it's kind of hard. Right? So you're still gonna do that. But when you a, when you combine them, it is magic. I foresee Facebook making a bunch of money after this episode. So and, and patients joining DPC practices all over the country. Yeah. Yes. In terms of, you know, challenges that you guys are facing. Um, I, I would love to, if, if you're able to share what are some other challenges in addition to what we've talked about that you guys might be facing, um, that Dr. Una could chime in on my current challenge is trying to figure out a system where I'm not constantly training my staff, the same thing that they forgot a week ago, three months ago. So every single and, and what I'm doing right now is very reactive. When the schedule is empty. It's like, you need to call, you know, I have my list, but they're not doing it on automatic. I have to tell them, and it's exhausting and it makes me wanna exit this business side of my practice. And so right now, I'm, I, I opened in 20 18, but I'm cash two years ago. So every time I do something new, I'm reinventing myself, which in turns re you know, the whole process, the protocol resets. And so I'm at a place right now where I know it's essential to have a system. I just don't know what that really looks like for my staff, so that the schedule stays full. Okay. So I, I wanna start off by saying this staffing is the biggest headache of every business, except the business. That's not big enough to need staff, right? Every, I sat with a woman who runs a company that does 500 million in revenue. Guess what? Her biggest headache is staffing. And so somebody asked her a question, said, how do you find great people? And I leaned forward as like, she has a $500 million company she's gonna gimme the real deal. She said, it's trial and error. I was like, what? Like what I'm doing now? she said it is trial and error. And you're most likely gonna kiss three or four frogs before you get your prints. Why am I telling you that? I want to normalize the growing pains, the pains that go with building a team, hiring the right people, building the company culture. I wanna normalize that. So you're not like I have this unique challenge in my business. You see what I mean? And so you're like, it is messy. Apparently that's how it is, but we will work on it and it will get better. Do you see what I'm saying? So, so that's the starting point now when it comes to training, um, I, I would remind you of, or tell you this quote, I don't even know who said it. It's not mine. How about that? I didn't come up with this. And it says that the price for freedom is eternal vigilance. The price for freedom is eternal vigilance. And which means that for your tr your team, the price of a great team, a great culture is almost continual training. Maybe not in the way that's being done now, but there's training. There is repetition, all of that stuff, right? And so when we know that we relax, now we build training systems. So we're not doing the heavy lifting for everything, but there is it's, it's eternal vigilance. So when it, when it comes to the actual training, Recording is your friend. So now we can borrow from other industries. other industries would look at the things that need to be done. The things you find yourself constantly training on and would produce videos on all of them. And so that way, if you're needing to retrain on something, you're not necessarily retraining, here's a link watch. Now this is the, you know, questionnaire, whatever you need to fill, and then you can come demonstrate or something like that, but you're not doing the actual heavy lifting of training again. And that also means when new people come in, you may have this catalog of these 12 videos, right? You watch these first before your first day, and then we, we can get to work. Do, do you see what I mean? But when you create your library, you're saving yourself a lot of trouble. And as your people start to mature, there are other videos that they can do. Like, you're like you do this every day. You go record a video running through the process and you're building that library. So you have somewhere to refer people to. Right. And, and that takes a lot of the heavy lifting on by the time you're say bigger, if that's what you want to do, and you have a manager and all of that, now you can have that person being the anchor for the training, but it's your tr like, you know what the material is, you know, what it should produce on the other side, you see what I mean? And that what you think about what we did as residents, they'll bring you back training you on the same thing, bring you back doing in-service. And all of that is, is, is the same thing, right? And so recording what you do is one of the most amazing things, and it doesn't have to be this cute, polished video done in a studio. If you're gonna teach somebody something, put a camera in front of you, right. And then record it and it's done it doesn't have to be the cutest thing ever. Um, in my practice, I actually created a private podcast. Um, that, so like things like work ethic, our core values, all of those things I had them recorded. And so when new people come on, here you go, you know, listen to this. Or if they have went meetings, we, they have meetings every Wednesday. Um, they can play one of the episodes and stuff like that. And so it's just a recurrent training system, right. when it comes to not being reactive, when it comes to filling your schedule, you can always develop what we call a marketing Stu, right? Like what should we be doing every week, every month, every day to make sure our schedule is full. Um, sometimes you are so full that it gets backed up in a way, but if you have a system in place, you can make sure it's always done. So for instance, something as simple as I, I'm not sure how it will work for podiatry, but this is the way it will work in pediatrics where everybody who is on their way out, everybody who steps into the office should leave with an appointment. And we can always tell when that was not done because you have this month where you're like, what happens to our schedule? Then you look, three months ago, you say all those 15 months old, who should have come for the 18 months, we're in schedule six months old, who's come to the nine months we're in schedule. So , the, gap in this schedule didn't show up that week. The, the gap in that schedule was made three months ago, because something that should have been done every day wasn't done. Right? So when they're not scheduling, it's not an emergency, like, oh, this mom left without an appointment, but it will be an emergency in three months. you see what I mean? So what do you do every day? What do you do every week? And so maybe every week you have a, Recaller like everybody who's overdue for an appointment. They get called every Tuesday. You see what I mean? Or there's some automated thing. And the automated thing goes out every Tuesday. And so if you're making the appointments every week, the automated thing is going out. Um, every, every week then you're generating appointments. Do you see what I mean? And um, so there are things like that you can do. And on the days that are quote unquote slower in my office, we work as hard because if they're not patients to see you would be calling the patients who need to be seen right. And so at the end of the day, nobody, no staff member was a cost or an expense. Every, every staff member was in investments because they generated. You see what I mean? And so, so it's, it's, it is documenting your training, putting a system. It can be simple. It can be simple as what we talked about, or, you know, you adapt it for your own practice, but what do they do every day, every week, every month to make sure they're generating appointments. And the thing with that is those things typically fall. When you think about the quadrants, it falls in not urgent but important. So it's easy to go. Like, we'll do it tomorrow. We'll do it tomorrow. And then three months later, you're like, what is going on? I thought we were growing right. And so, because it's urgent, not urgent, but important. It has to be scheduled. It has to review, be reviewed every week. Are we on top of it? Um, my practice we're at a points where we would usually have this. We review the schedule every week for three months out. . And so if there's someday that there's no patients on the schedule, then you could tell the staff to professionally put people there. So does that help? I know I threw a lot at you, but yeah, that's perfect. Um, it is kind of hard with the dietary because we don't have follow ups in the way with, um, primary docs, but there is something that I can do, like diabetic foot checks, for example, that's an annual thing. So I am looking at more wellness packages that make sense that people want, that people want in. And what people may not understand is if they don't come, they are at risk of an amputation. And so that's the message I'm working with that I'm trying to focus on. So that's helpful. Yeah. And sometimes that's a hard message to give, but it's an important one. Like I'd rather hurt your feelings than you keep your. you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah. So, you know, cuz sometimes we don't wanna say things like that, but it, but it is the truth and that's, that's really helpful. And so the other thing to look at is are there referral sources? So for instance, OB GYNs, I think they get faxes every six weeks. I wanna say like, Hey, you can send us babies and stuff like that. So if they're internal medicine docs and people, you know, like family medicine docs who have, um, you know, of course the diabetic patients and stuff like that, then they, it can be a schedule say every month to reach out to them, say, Hey, we're available. Um, you know, thank you for sending us to patients. You did send us and all that. We love taking care of them. That puts you, that keeps you top of mind, right? So that's another like revenue generating marketing Stu type activity they can do. So just look for the things that give you patients and then build a system around them. And so it takes away the thinking is just execution. You don't have to think day to day, week to week, month to month, what to do. It's a. listening as a family medicine physician, I love that, you know, when you talked about how you can future think, the way that we can bend technology to work for our communities is so powerful. And when you talk about the diabetics there could be a newsletter about, you know, that condition because that person has been put on this diabetic, uh, newsletter. Or, you know, because we, we don't operate in, we have to see patients in the office in DPC all the time. I mean, for, for some we do, because they need that care. But if a patient comes in and you review their labs about diabetes, you can set that future reminder to, to just check in how are you doing? And it's not necessarily generating a visit per se, but it is generating the return on that, uh, value proposition that they've invested in that like, oh my gosh, I, to, I totally forgot that that was three months ago that we reviewed my diabetes labs. So you can really, just like you've been saying, you know, mold our practices with different entrepreneurial aspects and affect our patients so much differently are there any other challenges that have popped into your guys' heads, as you're listening? Well, what Dr. T mentioned, those are really helpful things because I'm in the process of now trying to find a staff member because I've been operating without one so far. So, a lot of things are going through my mind and, and I love the, advice you gave Dr. Unah about even just recording the things that, you know, you want them to be trained on or how to do certain things in the way that you like the practice to function. And so that's really helpful. And I think it's always challenging cuz you're always gonna probably have staff turnover and things like that. And to be prepared for that, it's, it's hard, but, uh, but yeah, but that's one of the challenges I'm facing right now is my next step of kind of hiring somebody and then, and then getting them acclimated to DPC and how this is a very different kind of practice, you know, to work with. So, first of all, congratulations that you're getting ready to hire. This is exciting things. Yeah. I think in the entre day world, we say the reward for solving problems is more problems. And so you've graduated from one to the next one. So, so this is great. right. Um, you know, hiring is one of my, um, is becoming one of my favorite things to talk about is just challenging, but we can do it. Right. And so I, I just wanna throw out some pointers. I started talking, I was like, oh, lemme write this real quick. So I don't forget anything. But if I met you by an elevator and I could only talk to you for two minutes before you had to, you know, go, this is what I'll tell you. So, number one, when you do your interviews, do three interviews, give peoples crazy the opportunity to manifest oh, more like they real self, right. And so. That could look like a phone interview, a zoom interview, an in person interview. It can look that way. Um, why are you doing that? It's easy to pretend on one. It's harder to pretend on three, right? And so are they lazy? Are they snappy? If, if they're, they will let their guard down at some point. Right. And so, um, doing three interviews is great. If you can, um, three different people, if you can, if you can't, it's fine because you may, um, in the beginning, my hiring strategy was, I like them. What does that have to do with anything right. Like, and so three people may not, one person might be objective you, you see what I mean? And people see things from different perspectives and, and they pick up on different things. So when you guys come together and talk about it's, it's amazing. And I have, you know, like now I have a, I have a bigger office. So my practice administrator will do the first interview. Another doc in the office will do the interview. I do the final interview. We come together, you know, everybody says from their perspective, you know, and stuff like that. But even when I didn't have that, my, my husband is not medical at all. I would have him do one of the interviews just, and I'll tell him, this is what I'm looking for. This is the person's resume and all of that stuff, they just have a different perspective. It's just great to have different eyes on it. So maybe you don't get three people, but maybe it's not just, you, you, you see what I'm saying? The third thing is, believe people's past. we have faith in people's potential. I know she has what it takes. Has she done it before? Right. If somebody has done every job for two months, they will most likely work for you for two months, no matter what they tell you, chances are right. If someone walks in and their first thing is I left my last job because my, you know, my manager shes from the pit of hell and all that stuff. And then leads with that. Chances are, they will say the same thing about you at their next interview, which may not be long from when they start working for you. Right? if somebody, um, got to leadership positions, if, if you meet somebody that was a medical assistant rose to become a PR a practice administrator loves leadership, loves helping people loves, uh, making a difference with systems. That's a keeper. Because the person is telling you, I'm hungry. I wanna grow. I'm serious. I'm serious about my life, my career, all of that stuff. So you pay attention to things like believe their past, I have a problem, but it is what it is. It's who I am. I can look at somebody and I can trace like 20 years from now. This is who this person can become, which is not good for hiring. Right? Because I'm like, if they'll just do this, if they'll read this book, if they'll do this, if they'll change this, if they'll change this, they can be this. I'm so excited, but that's potential. They may not want to do any of those things ever. you see what I'm saying? So you believe their, you believe their past, you believe their record. Like don't go like, oh, that was in that place. That's cuz it was toxic. Believe their past. and then train. So like I told Dr. T it's train, train, train, train, you, you wanna bring them in, teach them your way and is gonna re require a lot of redirection, accountability, and coaching and all that kind of stuff. But if you do it right, uh, they become a great employee. They may train the next person for you, right. Um, if, if, if they eventually leave at least while they were with you, they were well trained. You know what I mean? And you became good at training. See, sometimes our first employees don't, it doesn't work out, not because of the employee, but we don't know how to onboard people. We don't know how to train. We don't know how to delegate. We're like, why can't they read my mind and do what I want? Well, that's not the way it works. Right? And so sometimes the first few hires don't work because of us. It's not even because of the people. You see what I mean? So, so train, embrace it, learn how to do all of that stuff. And then the last thing is, and this is really important. Start them busy. don't say, oh, they just started. So I'll let them do two things. Give them as close to a normal day as possible because they're uncomfortable. Anyway, they're gonna need to adjust anyway. Right? And so you might as well do it all once they grip the bandaid off and be done because when you start them slow, you have told them this is a normal day. When you give them the normal day, they will complain about every normal day until they stop working with you. You see what I'm saying? So you give them as CLO. I learned this from Brian, Tracy, you learn, you give them as close to a normal day as possible. So every other day's easier, but you give them that easy day it's complaints all the way. So your elevator came and you had to leave. That's it. very helpful. Thank you. My pleasure. Dr. I know you've been such a wealth of information as you are all every day to on your podcast, especially, but I wanted to ask, in addition to, you know, you spoke about Dr. Brian Tracy's book, EAP frog. what are some other resources that you love recommending to other physicians, especially if they're at the brink of entrepreneurship or , they're in their, their first few years. I used to think , I didn't have what it took to be a good entrepreneur. Right? Like you hear somebody with a wildly successful business. You're like, how did they do that? Like, they're different. And one of the things that really helped me is reading autobiographies. Cause when you read autobiographies, you're like, wait a minute. We are all the same. Every last one was like, you have doubts, they have doubts. You know what I mean? And so reading auto books that are like autobiographies are really good. uh, Kara golden wrote a really good one called Ted is her story, her business. She does, um, hints, water, the unsweetened flavored water. Uh, they do about, I think 150 million or soy revenue. She tells her story. It is like it's the, like the most amazing thing ever, eat that frog by Brian. Tracy. Love it. . I still read it every year. Um, and, and it's a really good book. 21 ways to overcome procrastination. That's the, that's the tagline for the book. Really good book. Um, rich that poor dad. I like, because it just makes you think differently. There's a doctor think and there's a business think and they're two different things. Right. And so it just helps you think differently, open up opportunities differently and stuff like that. So, so that's a, that's a book that, that I've read. atomic habits all starts from habits anyway. Um, because I'm an introverted, I'm an introvert I really am. a lot of the things I do for entrepreneurship, they don't come naturally. So sometimes I study people way on the other side. So. Grand Cardone has a book called be obsessed or be average. I will never be like grand corn. He's all the way on the other side, but it pulls me away from my introvert itself. Right. So as I follow him for that reason, just like, okay, stay in the middle you don't be on the other side. And so he has a really good book called be obsessed or be averaged. And I think for physicians, at least for me, and many docs I've spoken with there's this unwritten thing of I've paid my dues. I shouldn't need to be doing this. I should show up and the patient should come. That entitlement thing I was talking about. And so he is really into the action that produces the result. Right. And so it pulls me out of. Deceptive mindset because we walk around with it. Um, so that's a, that's a book that I, I I've read and I I've read multiple times, podcast. I love ed Mylet. , and cuz he interviews some of the most phenomenal people on earth from all different fields and you listen to things that people have created and people have done and you're like, I haven't even started, you know, like I've arrived and you're like, clearly I haven't arrived. you know, and not from a bad competitive kind of place. It's all about becoming all. You have the potential to be like, why die with your potentials? I wanna die and leave an empty body. Like that's it. I, I, all my potential is out in the world somewhere, you know? And so I listen to him a lot and his interviews are really like autobiographies. So I get so much out of it. That's really good for me. of course I cannot say don't read the on trend method book. Because that was written specifically for you. That's my fifth child. Um, so on MD method book, , I really, you know, , the way I help people is I try to be an example. I show you how I did it. I go after something new, I show you how I did it. That's literally what I do. And so that's what I talked about in the book. Like all the things I just laid it out there , you know? And, I think that's a good starting point, really. And you know what I told you about Googling, physician entrepreneurs, it's really important that we see people like us thriving as entrepreneurs. And so when you see people thriving, pay attention to what they're doing, follow them. If you can, if they have books, read their books, um, if they have podcasts, listen to their podcast, because there is this subconscious narrative that we walk around with business. People can do it. We can't, we're not business people. And some of us are even business people, but it's, there's still the narrative running. And so it's important to see people like us. Um, you see people, there are doctors, they're on shark tank. You may not wanna go on shark tank and that's fine, but explore it. Like, how did they get there? Right. You see people who are running, you know, eight figure companies as physicians. some people are like, they went to the dark side, what dark side? Just explore it. Like, how did they do that? That's fascinating. You know what I mean? And so study them. I'm a, I'm a student of business, you know, it's fascinating. It really. Awesome. , and with that, thank you so much, Dr. UNO for joining us today. Thank you. So, so, so much for having me and I, I think, you know, I, I would love to leave this with every, DPC doc out there you are. you're a doc who's changing medicine. What you do matters, not just for your patients, but also for the physician community. You're, you're the examples of what, what is possible. You're the books that people are reading and, you know, so yes, sometimes you may feel like you're fighting an uphill battle, but fight it. for the sake of others who are watching it, it, it makes a, it makes a huge difference. And, you know, um, in the, on entre world, we produce a lot of, you know, resources, the podcast, the book, the business school. And if there's any way to support you, we're happy to, but regardless fight for what you believe in fight to create a business. That's an example because that's your legacy work. There's so many things, the ripple effect of it. I mean, I don't think anybody can predict that, but it is gonna be big. We're the ones changing medicine. So thank you for what you do. And don't. Transcript generated by AI, so please forgive errors.

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